1954 AUG 18 CC MIN - 55DAVID ETTLESON_ r an nr.......
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1 MAYOR SWANSON: Will the meeting please come to
2 order?
3 The City Clerk will call the roll.
4 ... Roll call by the City Clerk, all Councilmen
5 being present...
MAYOR SWANSON: Due to the lateness of the hour,
7'I am going to ask you to please cut your remarks a little
short and not drag them out•too long because we have to
make another round yet, give those in favor a chance for
rebuttal and those that are opposed to the zone change a
chance for rebuttal.
The main thing is to express your opinion
for or against it. That is what goes into the record.
Mr. Wilmot, you had the floor, I believe,
when we recessed. Are you finished?
MR. WILMOT: Well, I would like to make one more
statement, I don't believe anybody brought thisout, and I
think I am speaking for the majority of the people out in
our community, that we are all opposed to this C -2 zone
change, and we are all opposed to a C -1 zone change.
(Applause)
MAYOR SWANSON: Now, is there anyone else who
wishes to speak in opposition?
MR. JERRY CONROY: I live at 521 Irene Court. I
would like to ask this gentleman a question here. He stated
thatthe Junior Chamber of Commerce turned in a petition with
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presented to the City Council a' pet 'tion' or a res.oli t. -Ion
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in which we favor the rezoning request made by North
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American Aviation. In fact, several members of our organi-
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zation as individuals, not as representatives of our
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organization, have secured names on petitions. The reasons
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that they had are varied; some of them are employees of
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North American; some of them are private individuals who
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are interested in this thing.
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Now, the fact that they went around and
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made these petitions available to citizens of our community
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has nothing to do with the Junior Chamber of Commerce.
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We invite our members to take an active part in anything
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that is either for the betterment or the d.is- betterment
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of-our community. We invite them to do that. In other
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words,.not that they will support things that are not good
for the community, but that they will fight things that
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are not good for the community. We will always do that.
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We will invite our members to do it. Maybe we don't do
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it as an organization, and that is the thing I tried to
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point out before.
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Now, our organization did support a resolu-
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tion favoring this thing. We did not send. men out to
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collect names on petitions. If individuals of our club
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did it and got up and said, "I am a member of the Junior
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25 Chamber of Commerce, and I submit this petition," I wish
26 they hadn't done it, I'll say that. But the fact that
1y -- -
23 tobecome a memoer u�, �_'�°
20 MAYOR SWANSON: Anybody else?
� ot 1ltit.P new
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DAviD ETTL,ESON, c s
. i yft� ,i I _".7 R St !; t'f� "i�✓ '�Q�t�'.�r���r �`_
' _' .. ;. f • � t �.r r fr� }cR...t J v very. � ;v. �
1 they are 'Junior Chamber, oP Gommeree..'memb SC;�ii be it
2 adds to their status in the community, maybe it takes away
3 from it -- I would like to believe that it adds to their
4 status. However, they do not represent our club when they.
5 present their petitions.
6 MR. VIREN: May I ask you a question. This is
7 clarification. Then as I see it, there are two instruments;
s one is a resolution by your body, and the other one is a
s group of petitions presented by individuals?
to MR. CARR: Right, 100 percent right.
11 MR. VIREN: Do those petitions mention the Junior
12 Chamber of Commerce?
13 MR. CARR: No, sir. You heard them read.
14 MAYOR SWANSON: Anybody else?
15 MR. DON LAWRENCE: If North American acquires this
16 particular site, do they contribute financially to the
17 Chamber of Commerce? Will someone answer that, please?
18 MAYOR SWANSON: Do you wish to answer that, Mr.
19 Taylor?
20 MR. TAYLOR: I believe we are now a member of the
21 C hamber of Commerce in E1 Segundo. If we were not, the
22 acquisition of the zoning on this site would not cause us
23 tobecome a member on that basis.
24 MAYOR SWANSON: Anybody else?
25 MR. VIREN: Does that mean that you contribute now
26 to the Chamber of Commerce?
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hold a membership op a in the community hold a
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membership.
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MRS. DONNA MAY WHITE: I would like to go on
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record as opposing a change of zone from the present zone
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to C -2 or C -1. There are many reasons why I oppose this.
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Many of them have been discussed tonight and I am not
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going to go over them. I am very much interested in the
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traffic problem.
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We live in the immediate neighborhood. We
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have a good taste of industrial traffic from present
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traffic conditions. We certainly don't want any more.
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I can appreciate Mr. Taylor's and the other
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members of his organization's efforts to.control traffic.
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I think an attempt can be made to control it. I have
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seen an attempt made to control parking on the streets.
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I know it is done, I know that there hasn't been as much
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traffic for some reason or other -- perhaps the survey has
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something to do with it, I'm not sure -- but we do have
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ordinarily a great deal of traffic during the rush hours
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on our street. We certainly don't want any more.
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No matter with how much good faith any
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organization acts, I don't think they can tell a man how
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he is going to'come to work, or how he is going to go home.
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He might have to leave by a certain gate, or enter by a
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certain gate, but he is on the public streets, and he is
to
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going
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2 the way he can do it the most quickly. I think it is human
3 nature for any person going to and from work to find the
4 way that suits him the best, and I don't believe it is
5 Possible to control that.
5 Therefore, I would like to renew my stand
r that I am cpposed to this j
MAYOR SWANSON: Anybody else in Opposition?
MRS. L40RRAINE•BECKENHOLDT: I live at 1300 West
Walnut. I am one of the etitione'
P rS against this because
I am violently affected by the present coming -up rezoning.
Naturally, I have a right, but I am wondering
how many rights people who live too far away have in
petitioning this Council to have something where it will
not affect them? What rights do they have? What are the
• laws concerning that? I Would like to ask the council
that question.
MAYOR SWANSON: Anybody can sign a petition.
MRS- B,ECKENHOfDT: No matter where they live, if
they are not affected by the area to be rezoned; anybody?
MAYOR SWANSON: Whether we take it into considera-
tion is something else..
MRS- BECKENHOLDT: I was Just wondering how that
could be. Well, you can Put me down as being against thin
rezoning to either C-2 or C-1.
I live in the community,
I have children, I am asking the right to have my child
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MR. CARL CRAMLET: I live at 1212 East Walnut.
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P,r,.,,-.-MAY0R ouldx you ' please vote no .
SWANSON: Anybody, else opposed?
a MRS. LAVIN AAILEY: I live at 121 East Acacia
Avenue. ,... r.
The last speaker covered pretty much what
I wanted to say. Still I kept a sort of list of the
companies in town who sent in letters approving North
American's coming in, and except for one man, Mr. A. J.D.
White who has a business here and who stated he lived in the
area, none of the others did. There were three businesses
mentioned in our immediate area, namely motels and restaurant
up there. I can imagine that,they would be a little bit
impressed. But at the time Mrs. Elsey accepted the petitions
she stated that she had not yet checked the addresses. That
Is what I am wondering about, is their area afftected. And
I think Mrs. Beckenholdt sort of asked that, what areas
really are considered affected by this change. I mean, what.
are the boundaries, how far do you go, do you cover all of
E1 Segundo?
MAYOR SWANSON: I imagine that that is something we
will take into consideration when we take this matter under
advisement.
Anybody else?
MR.
CARL CRAMLET:
I
live
at 1212 East
Walnut.
I
would. like to
go on record
as
being
opposed. I
have a
feelin
24 building built to withstand the weight of helicopter
25 landings on the roof? Could that question be answered?
26 MR. TAYLOR: I don't know the answer to that. We
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,37wtUo9w$Lp'17-7kerew do -- =' that 4�
sold out" -,ii .,North American gets in. We are the
levy. We are not professional speakers. All we are
,trying to do is to protect our homes and our children.
These people from North American are paid high salaries to
sway the Council. It is their business, it is their job to
get ideal locations. It is'an ideal location for them.
But aren'tthe people of El Segundo supposed to be represen-
ted by the Council? And if the Council agrees to something
like that, I think the majority of the people here in
El Segundo feel like, well, the little guy is forgotten.
Big money has won out',
So if they surround us on all corners
we have big industry on one side, we have the Hyperion
which isn't helping El Segundo any,, and we have a lot of
noise on the other side. Now., they are starting to close
in on the other side. What are we going.to do? Are we
going to move to Redondo Beach so we can get out some place
for a litte peace and quiet?. Or are we just going to have
to sit in here and take it?
MR. BAILEY: I would. like to ask two questions,
and the first one I'would like to ask directly some
representative of North American. Is this new proposed
building built to withstand the weight of helicopter
landings on the roof? Could that question be answered?
MR. TAYLOR: I don't know the answer to that. We
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1 have never contemplated a helicopter landing on the
2 build�tng.
MR. BAILEY: Well that answers
3 �, , part of it, although
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it is a rather unsatisfactory 1
4 ry answer. However, .there is F
5 another pointed question. It ust so happens, ppens, to the best
s of my knowledge -- and it is under investigation right now
7 by a Commission that I belong to on the al7rport of trying
8 to find out what body governs the pattern of approach for
9 landing and take -off of helicopters -- we all know it is
10 a 7:66ming thing and it would be a very handy implement,
11 for North American; if I owned the company, I think I would.
12 like to have one for only outside facilities.
13 At the present time it is a generally known
14 :fact that CAA does not control the traffic pattern on the
15 helicopter situation, and to the best of my knowledge --
16 and. I have never had anybody say anything in rebuttal to
17 it -- the only jurisdictional body for the landing and
18 operation of helicopters in this area is the Los Angeles
is Fire Department.
201 Chief Friedman, could you verify that? Do
21 You know anything about that?
22 CHIEF FRIEDMAN: No.
At 23 MR. BAILEY: Well, I asked that
question of the
24 City Building Department and they told me they couldn't
25 answer it. And even the man who helps run the airport
26 did,not answer it, and they are investigating it at the
25 could be assured -- you can see that my property is adjoin -
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e r.o rim; ;p if we
lg3egundo to curtail any
`would like to know, and I just
or an investigation, for a little thought
uture planning.
t ,.lo MAYOR SWANSON: Anybody else?
11 MRS. LAMPTON:' I didn't get my question answered.
12 Now, the Planning Commission told me that they could .build
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13 right to the property line on the C -2. How near to the
14 property line can they build on a C -1? Is it the same
15 thing?
16 MAYOR SWANSON: I believe so.
17 MRS. LAMPTON: Then at a future time could. there
18 be any control put on that property so that they would not
19 come right up to their property line? I think Mr. Taylor
20 mentioned, that they were going to have this strip, I believe
i 21 you said about 10 or 12 feet wide, is that right, Mr.
22
Taylor?
23 MR. TAYLOR: That is correct.
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24 MRS. LAMPTON: Would there be any way that we
t.; ! 25 could be assured you can see that my property is adjoin-
26 ing to theirs, and the plan that they have indicated is
4„
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x.tLt�.enw .a: yr. a= dt',z rd dwr_ a PI ur' i 1� 1.
a "land�c
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F 1,J 3 Acacia; a oeefl; but what assurance
4iave,le a r ' o e;thirig$ would be so, not just today but
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s five` years' from now?
6 Another thing, you can see that we would
7 not be affected'on Acacia by the traffic if the street
8 remains closed, but we are affected as we leave our block,
9 as our children leave our block. We are concerned with
10 the traffic in the neighborhood.
11 But I would like to know what protection
12 we would have against any buildings going right up against
13 our property line, what assurance would we have that it
14 would not be so maybe a year or two hence?
15 MAYOR SWANSON: Mr. Attorney, do you wish to
16 answer that?
17 MR. WOODWORTH: All I can say is that the Building
18 Code is a very thick book, and I am not familiar with all
19 the provisions of it, but whatever the Building Code law
20 was at the time, they would have to comply with.
21 MRS. IAMPTON: There could be no conditions? In
22 other words, if it were zoned for C -1, then they could build.
23 right up to the line if they saw fit, is that right?
24 MR. WOODWORTH: Whatever that zone permitted them
=25 to do under the provisions of the Building Code, they could
'. -' 2s do • ' If it is . in Zone C -1 -- and I made that ruling earlier
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,' �. �!, '�,"r7•e�rrs.r,vasl;,y?:a t.��,M :w; + {i� ,Y'�� :.i�,7
'enrs --Ait is ect I.'tb Zone C -1 regulations.''
If it is in Zone C -2, it is subject'to the regulations in
the ordinance already for C -2. If the Council is going to
prescribe other conditions for C-2 or C -1 property than
are set forth in the Ordinance today, then-they would have
to•amend the Ordinance in order to set forth the new condi-
tion, whatever it was.
MRS. IAMPTON : Thank you.
MRS. $AILEY:* This is something that possibly may
affect Mrs. Lampton more than myself because she is right
up there next to it, but in this zoning book, in Section
1+19, dealing with.parking it says:
"Any light shall be'arranged. to reflect
.away from the premises upon which a dwelling
is located.."
Well, if there are lights up there, it is a security area,
being a defense area, why, naturally there will be lights
on it all night., She will never have a dark bedroom to
be able to open her blinds, and she will continually have
lights when she wants air in her bedroom at night because
they face directly in there. I bring that up even though
it affects her more than myself, and she probably didn't
realize it.
MAYOR SWANSON: Is there anybody else opposed?
We have to take another round, so please make it as briefly
as possible.
24 of a few years ago. At that time the Council directed. an
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.live; at 718 Virginia
and Iam in the process of building a home at 1502
East Oak.
One of the ti.ngs that kind of bothers me
here a little bit is that about three months ago I sold my
home over here on Virginia Street and looked for lots in
the City of E1 Segundo to build a home on. I have worked
for Standard. Oil for about twelve years, and I intend to
stay here. If you want to live in this town, why, you
would like to have a nice place to live. So you look for
a lot and the only desirable lots left in this city that
I could. find were out in that area that we are speaking of.
If we zone this for C-2 or Zone C -1, we
are practically eliminating any R -1 or R -3 available lots.
And I would like to go on record as being opposed to this
rezoning.
MAYOR SWANSON: Ahybody else opposed?
MR. GLENN MAD$EN= I reside at 841 California
Street. I would like to go back to the past history a little
of a few years ago. At that time the Council directed an
inquiry to North American Aviation as to the proposed use
of the hangars 8 and 9, and. we got a letter back from them
111.11 •., Iv . P1 -P r1nn,)CAf'?
Syr,
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i io�''bu ldings
I _o .dr state a little bit further that
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was whether they would be using those buildings
ere. for engine testing. We got a letter back from
hem on June 26th, 1951, stating that those two hangars
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would be used for the installation and testing of elec-
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tronics and. radio equipment, and pre - flight inspection,
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which was a very clever way of saying -- not what we wanted
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to know, they didn't elaborate on that particular phase --
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that that included engine run-ups.
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Now, there is a lot of terminology in this
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thing, whether you are talking about engine - testing or
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engine run-ups, or whether you are talking about pre -
flight inspection, but they all make the same amount of
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noise. So I can't help but feel that in a lot of this
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discusi on we have had here by North American, that it may
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also be clever usage of words. That is something that
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most of us common citizens don't have.
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Also in listening to the request of this
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proposal, I was impressed by the number of bread- and- butter
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requests that were made earlier, all of whom are manufactur-
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ing people who hope to be honored by the Purchasing Depart -
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ment, that is all. (Applause)
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MAYOR SWANSON: Anybody else opposed.?
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MR. STEPHEN W. DOSS: I live at 49_-Penn Street.
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I have always noticed. that North American Aviation has a
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4�Yf�;��� �<<.,;i< `•K "•' �;� �r���^ '•.,., • people and making them
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1 great way of insulting P rator over
to bring in a great big incine
They are going town. Well,
2 that whole part of
3 there
which will affect
burning it legally...* there
we are ago had a strike over
A few ears
/they
' S dumped thousands of workers out into the
time they dump home
at which baskets and going
s their lunch
rain and mud, taking You an extra
q oing to give y
"We are not g and the
because they said, that,
s I haven't forgotten
�5 cents on the hour." That is what they
s about it either.
men haven't forgotten ou can find a
to If you don't like it, y
do to Union labor. them the extra
11 Why didn't they Pay
job somewhere else. et it?
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or
two bits on the hour and. (Pause) 13 Any else?
MAYOR SWANSON: body those
R 14 We will change over now and hear from
1] 15
ttal in
speak in rebu favor of the rezoning-
who wish to I am not here to debate
12 16 Mr . Mayor,
U Val. TAYLOR % . I will
13 that purpose.
11 17 this matter. I didn, }.t come here for
14 18 very brief. I would like to clear up a
12 try to make this
13 15 19 coup thing the record first. in exception
1e of s for took
16 20 earlier this evening Someone zoning Plan
14 17 21 to the 1946 discussion on the
15 � to my reference I do not happen to have
1s 22 City of El Segundo of 197 • e 16 of the the Minutes of the report of
1s 23 here, but in
17 a confirmed copy
20 � the Council Chamber of
1s m' 1 the public hearing conducted in Council
f 21 25 of E1 Segundo, City Hall, bef ore l the City
1s 22 d 7 6 the City
20 t.
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21 re; alrO.Lanes crossing
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DAVID ETTL:ESON,..C.B:R., OFFICIw4.1141►6 itTillyry
r i : f ;5 rw I � ♦�>y;;y 1.,, ti?r!;"�r"; �`•1M•!c•_ n �Y.4:. }A4 -�..
4. ;
of said city for the purpose of considering the proposed.
land use plan zoning ordinance for the City of E1 Segundo
in accordance with published notice thereof held. September ,..
30th, 1946.'
And if I may, I will read it, or if you
would prefer that I do not read it, I would request that
the secretary check it, the City Clerk check the record
and put it in the file of this hearing.
At that hearing Mr. Harry E. Geohegan,
representing the property at the corner of Sepulveda and
Imperial, spoke and stated that the airport is not
conducive to residences immediately fronting it and. asked .
for an explanation about how far back .......
I have been advised that Mr. Brinkman was
the Planning Consultant to the City of El Segundo at that
time. Mr. Brinkman explained that the matter was discussed .
before, and that the factor in leaving it R -3 was,that
the ground was hilly and ordinary business does not prosper
on sides of hills, and that the airport will take out of
use property which would in normal times constribute to
that property for business purposes; that no airport
development w ill be along Imperial, but further north
towards Century`.
Geohegan stated that airplanes crossing
runways and th'eY -].1ke are not conducive to residences, and
he felt that the
_,P opert;y •owners on Imperial are willing
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DAVID ETTL.`ESQN,,0s1.M5
to take a change on business. �``
Mr. Brinkman asked. if he felt that property
should. be zoned. for business, and Mr. Geohegan answered.,
"Yes." He also stated that he felt that the Council was
taking in too much territory as the result of airports not
yet known and that zoning was hard to knock out once it is
in.
Again he was asked what the upper right -
hand corner of the map meant, and this was explained by
Mr. Brinkman and Mr. Allen. Mr. Brinkman also explained
that in any zoning ordinance, including this one, there
Is a set -up for changing the ordinance if it is-no longer
practicable. If an airport does change conditions, -then
at that time the Commission and the legislative body would
recognize the situation and make changes accordingly.
Only for the matter of the record, that was all.
We are not talking about industrial develop-
ment. We did not apply for industrial zoning. We applied
for C -2, with the new reservation for C -1.
I regret that there have been a number of
references to North American's maybe lack of faith, lack
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of interest in the community. All I can do is again assure
you that we would like to get that reputation.changed, if
that is what some of you feel. That is not the way we
want to operate here nor any place else, and I would like
to show you something about that.
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I thought I had another chart that showed
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2
the present zoning on this piece of property (referring to
3
chart); only to prove this point do I bring this up. Good.
4
faith!
Along Imperial Highway this is the piece
5
of. property we are now talking about, referring to an
6
7
existing zoning chart, colored, that I will offer as our
8
exhibit next in order.
MR. WOODWORTH: It is a document that has at the
9
bottom in printing, "Existing Zoning," is that correct?
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MR. TAYLOR: That is correct.
it
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MR. WOODWORTH: Do you wish to offer /at this time,
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and then discuss it afterwards?
MR. TAYLOR: That is correct.
14
MR.-WOODWORTH: And what is the next exhibit
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number, Madam Clerk?
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CITY CLERK ELSEY: E.Xhibit No. 8,.
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(Whereupon the Chart above referred to was marked
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as Applicant Counsel's Exhibit No. 8 and received in
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evidence.)
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MR. TAYLOR: The portion of the property bordered
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in red, 150 feet deep along Imperial, is presently zoned
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C-2.
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•
The portion bordered by the grey is presently
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• 25
zoned R -3.
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The portion bordered in yellow is presently
2
z
24 friendly
in some respects. I hope I have shown you good
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