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Transcript of Proceedings had at the
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Regular Meeting of the City Council of
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the City of E1 Segundo, California,
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on the Appeal of Nathaniel M. Taylor, et al,
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from the Decision of the Planning Com-
mission of said City, made in its
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Resolution No. 17, adopted November 24,
12 1947 Disapproving pproving a Variance Applied
13 fore by said Nathaniel M. Taylor, at al.
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Meeting Held in
19 Council Chamber, City Hall,
City of El Segundo, California
20 Wednesday Evening, January 14, 1948
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DAVID ETTLESON. OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 354®
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2 Transcript of Proceedings had at the Regular
3 Meeting of the City Council of the City of El Segundo,
4 California, on the Appeal of Nathaniel M. Taylor, at alp
5 from the decision of the Planning Commission of said City,
6 made in its Resolution No. 17, adopted November 24, 19470
7 disapproving a variance applied for by said Nathaniel M.
8 Taylor, at al.
9 The meeting convened in the Council Chamber, City
10 Hall, City of E1 Segundo, California, at the hour of 7 :00
11 o'clock P.M., Mayor William R. Selby presiding.
12 The following members of the City Council and
13 City Officers were present:
14 WILLIAM R. SELBY, Mayor
15 WILBURN E. BAKER, City Councilman
16 Dave W. Peterson, City Councilman
17 WILLARD J. SKELLEY, City Councilman
18 L. R. THOMPSON, City Councilman
19 CLYDE WOODWORTH, Esq., City Attorney
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VICTOR D. McCARTHY, City Clerk
21 NEVA M. ELSEY, Deputy City Clerk
22 MAYOR SELBY: Gentlemen, we are now ready to take
23 the Nathaniel M. Taylor Appeal Case from the decision of
24 the Planning Commission on an appeal to this Board.
25 I believe it would be well if all those who are
26 planning on giving any testimony would arise and be sworn
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3848
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The. Clerk can take that oath.
MR. WOODWORTH: Has notice of time and place of
this hearing been duly given and proof of this been filed?
MR. McCARTHY: Yes.
MR. WOODWORTH: Now, I suggest, Mr. Mayor and
.Members of the Council, in order to conduct the hearing with
the least possible confusion, that all those who desire to
testify in favor of the application be heard from first, an
all those who desire to testify against it be heard next,
and then an opportunity be afforded both sides for rebuttal.
MAYOR SELBY: I think that is a good idea and we
will go through that once and then we are through with it;
otherwise we could continue all night.
MR, WOODWORTH: With reference to the swearing of
witnesses, we have found it to be expeditious to swear all
witnesses who desire to give testimony either one way or the
other during the course of the hearing to arise and be sworn
at the same time; and then, if anyone should come in after
that swearing takes place, that witness can be sworn separ-
ately at the time he takes the stand.
With that statement, if it is agreeable, the Clerk
may proceed to swear all witnesses who desire to give testi-
mony with reference to the matter now pending before this
Council.
MAYOR SELBY: I believe that that would apply to
anybody who wishes to testify tonight.
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER. LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3548
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MR. WOODWORTH: Or who wishes to address the
Council on the subject as part of the hearing on the Appli-
cation of Nathanial M. Taylor, et al, for Zone Variance to
apply to Lots 19, 20 and 21, Block 60 of E1 Segundo Sheet
No. 3, as per map recorded in map on pages 22 and 23 of
Maps and Records on file in the Office of the County Recorder
of Los Angeles County, California# to make an addition to
the present plumbing shop presently located on the above
described property and to enclose a portion of the structure
that is now partially open.
The notice and application apparently further
state that the property will not be put to any different or
other use than as previously.
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.00 A number of individuals were duly sworn ...
MAYOR SELBY: Now letts start and first we will
hear from those in favor of granting the change in the zone
variance as asked for by Mr. Taylor.
MR. J. H. JOBE: I reside at 5921 Stafford Avenue,
Huntington Park. I represent Mr. Taylor on this appeal.
Mr. Mayor and Members of the Honorable City Counci
When a request is filed for permission to male an addition
to a nonconforming building, it is usually natural for the
neighbors and City Officials to oppose the idea on the
ground that the existing use is bad enough without adding
to its However, you as businessmen and public adminis-
trators are undoubtedly aware that the first impression is
DAVID ETTLESON. OFFICIAL REWRTER. Los Amomas 13 . MICHIGAN 3548
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not always sound or correct and that further examination
often discloses extenuating circumstances which will revers
the original impression. I feel that this is so in the
instant case and that the members of the Council as leaders
in this community will examine all the facts and will judge
impartially and with wisdom. Let us, then, examine the
factors in this case.
Mr. Taylor bought his property in January of 1946
which was one year before the zoning ordinance took effect
which reclassified his property or, we will say, first
classified his property in the R -1 zone. Immediately upon
purchasing the property he commenced the construction of
the necessary buildings and enclosed the property with a
fence for the purpose of operating a plumbing contractor's
business within the building and around on the grounds.
With the adoption of the zoning ordinance one
year later in 1947, Mr. Taylors use of this property be-
came nonconforming since it was reclassified to a resi-
dential zone. When Mr. Taylor purchased this property be-
fore there was any idea of zoning of it, he selected it
particularly because it was 200 feet from the closest dwell
ing and he had no notion whatsoever that other improvements
would be constructed nearby.
It is a proven fact, therefore, that when the
zoning ordinance took effect, immediately Mr. Taylors
property became nonconforming, and under the zoning ordinan
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3548
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he is permitted to use this property indefinitely for the
original purpose, which is the operation of a plumbing con -
tractor's business, and this applies not only to the build-
ing but the grounds.
In addition to this status, the building itself
can be changed to any other use in the same category which
happens to be the M -1 zoning classification. In accordance
with the provisions of the zoning ordinance, this use can
remain here for an indefinite period of time, probably at
least 20 years.
In one sense the neighborhood is fortunate in
having this particular use established in this neighborhood
if there has to be a nonconforming use, which there is,
because Mr. Taylor has a very restricted type of use of his
property. He only uses it about two or three days out of
the week for actual activity and he generally has only
about two men working there and not over four at the most.
There is no night work whatsoever, and under the provisions
of the zoning ordinance it is possible to use the property
for 24 hours a day. There is no time limitation whatsoever
In addition to this, Mr. Taylor is a good neighbor
He has painted his fence, which he wouldn't have to do.
He has maintained his building in first -class condition
and he intends to do so as long as he stays there.
Now, in so far as the matter of the addition is
concerned, some of the people have been worried about the
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3548
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fact that this will fix the use more firmly on the property.
But it should not be overlooked that the character of the
property is established and no change in the matter of
additions will change the character of the property, becaus
it is indelibly stamped as an M -1 use or plumbing shop.
Mr. Taylor needs a 25 by 47 foot addition to
properly carry on his business. In connection with this
request which he made to the Commission, he is willing to
do what he can to make it amenable to the district. At
present he has a six -foot board fence surrounding this
building and it projects all the way out to the front pro-
perty line. Now, he is-entitled to retain that fence in
the same position, but he is willing to set his fence back
to conform to the setback prevailing in the block, which
will certainly be of great benefit to the residents nearby.
In addition to this, he is willing to keep his
property in first -class condition and confine all the fabri-
cation work within the building. At the present time he
does some of it outside and under the zoning law he is
entitled to continue that operation too; but he is willing
to move it all inside the building, which will make it less
distasteful to the neighbors, although it is not obnoxious.
But it will be better because it will reduce any possible
noises just to that extent.
Now, Mr. Taylor has bought this property in good
faitY, without any foreknowledge of any zoning that would
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 . MICHIGAN 3548
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zone him out. He has invested his money here and estab-
lished his business and naturally he wants to continue.
If he can't get his addition and he finds his space limits
and he has to move, it is only a matter of business that
he would have to dispose of this property in order to move
to another piece of ground that was not limited so he could
properly carry on his business.
If he has to dispose of this property, he cer-
tainly isn't going to tear the building down and move it
off and leave his slab there, which represents a consider-
able outlay, and sell it as real estate, or construct a
dwelling on it and sell it, because the use that he has
established on this property is worth far more than the
residential use of the property.
It would only be natural, therefore, that if
Mr. Taylor is forced to move, he will rent it to someone
in the same line of business or in other lines permitted
in the same zoning classification, as he can get far more
return that way,
That, in other words, would lead to almost any
type of use imaginable in the M -1 zone, and I call atten-
tion to the fact that, for instance, a man could go in
there with a machine shop or operate a stamping.machine or
punch presses and that could go on 24 hours a day every
day of the week and it would be perfectly all right and
legal.
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3548
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I also call attention to another use which might
go in which is in a more restricted classification, and
that is a printing establishment; and as you know, printing
establishments have a noisy press and a good many printers
like to work at night. So it is just a matter of plain
business; if he can't continue here, he will have to do
something with that property so as to make something out
of his investment,
Now, there is a question of a basis for establish-
ing a precedent in granting this request. As I have stated
before, the character of this property is fixed and the
granting of an addition doesn't change the character of the
property. If the case at point were one wherein it was
proposed.to use property which had not been used for any
commercial activity whatsoever, that would certainly estab-
lish a precedent because it would be permitting a use to
come into the neighborhood which was entirely foreign, and
if you let one person do that, it would mean that other
owners of property nearby could not be denied the same
privilege. But that does not apply in this case because
the property has already been established and is character-
ized as a commercial enterprise, and the mere making of
an addition will not change that fact.
Another thing to consider is that when Mr. Taylor
located his shop here, as I stated before, there was no
improvement within 200 feet of it, but in the interval,
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3548
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in spite of the presence of this supposedly obnoxious use,
several new dwellings have been constructed immediately to
the rear of his property and one right alongside. So it
can't be too bad. They have built with their eyes open
when they came in there.
Ordinarily, it is not good practice to permit
the expansion of a nonconforming business, but there are
sometimes extenuating circumstances which would justify
such an approval. In other words, if you can approve an
addition by limiting it in some form or other, such as
requiring him to move his fence back and requiring that he
keep the place painted and in good shape, that should cer-
tainly overcome a great deal of objection.
Another fact to consider, as I brought out before
is that as long as Mr. Taylor remains here, the neighbor-
hood is assured of a good neighbor who will not work night
and who will only work part time on his property and will
keep it up in first -class condition; and we couldn't be
sure in the event of a change of ownership or in the leas-
ing of this property to another enterprise in the M -1
classification that this would be the same result.
In conclusion, I will say that Mr. Taylor has
been a good neighbor and he wants to be a good neighbor,
and that he was only prevented from making any addition in
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first instance --
in other words,
when he
established
the
use which was two
years ago, that
was the
time of a
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3548
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critical shortage of materials, and he was barely able to
scrape up enough material to put up what he has there now,
but it wasn1t what he had in mind at the time. Now that
he can secure the material, he does want..t o go ahead and
construct the building to the size to fit his requirements
as originally planned. It was through no fault of his own
that he was not allowed to construct the building at the
time that he began the occupancy of the property because
of our war -time restrictions on materials.
There is one other point I would like to bring
out as read in the notice here, and that is: that the
notice referred to permission to enclose a portion of the
building, which legally is not correct. Because in the
zoning ordinance it states that, although additions may
not be made to a nonconforming building automatically and
no changes may be made in so far as structural features
are concerned, there is nothing in the zoning ordinance
to prevent the enclosing of this building, because it com-
priaes a cement slab, with possibly a roof over it; and
since the enclosing walls would be non - bearing walls, there
would be no structural changes within the meaning of the
zoning ordinance. So the request boils down merely to the
construction of the new addition.
MAYOR SELBY: Thank you,
MR. WOODWORTH: Mr, Clerks I assume that the
complete file of the Planning Colmnission, including
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3548
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Resolution No. 17 of the Planning Commission, is presently
before the Council and in your possession?
MR. MCCARTHY: That is right.
MR. WOODWORTH: And I also assume, Mr. Mayor,
that the Council will receive that and make it a part of
the records ,of this case?
MAYOR SELBY: That is right,
MR. WOODWORTH: So ordered?
MAYOR SELBY: So ordered*
MR. MCCARTHY: Mr, Mayor, I have here a com-
munication addressed to the Council by Mr. Jobe. Do you
wish to have this read at this time or just placed in the
record for examination by the Council?
MR. WOODWORTH: That would be up to Mr. Jobe.
Would you like to have that introduced in it?
MR. JOBE: I want that to become a part of the
file. It doesn1t makB any difference to me whether it is
read or not because I have covered substantially in my
talk what is included therein.
MR. WOODWORTH: Well, at your request, it will
be received and made a part of the record, if that is
agreeable, Mr. Mayor?
MAYOR SELBY: Yes, it is.
MR. WOODWORTH: Is that so ordered?
MAYOR SELBY: So ordered,
MR. WOODWORTH: Let's see, I believe, Mr. Mayor]
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3546
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you are now hearing from those who are in favor of the
change.
MAYOR SELBY: Ladies and gentlemen# we are still
hearing from those who are in favor of Mr. Taylorts appeal
to make the change, from those in favor of his request.
Is there anybody else who cares to say anything on behalf
of Mr. Taylor on his appeal? (Pause)
Mr. Taylor, have you anything you care to say
at this time?
1AR. NATHANIEL M. TAYLOR: I don't believe so.
MAYOR SELBY: Then there is none else who wants
to say anything in favor of Mr. Taylor's appeal? If not,
we will then go on to those who are opposed to this appeal.
MR. PRESTON D. RICHARDS: I am an attorney and
my office address is 650 South Spring Street, Los Angeles.
I represent the owner of 21 lots in the immediate neighbor-
hood. I think most of the lots are across the street from
Mr. Taylorts place.
Mr. Jobe has made an excellent presentation of
Mr. Taylor's case, as he is very able to do, because he is
one of the best zoning experts in Los Angeles. I have a
very high regard for his opinion in regard to zoning and
his ability to present Mr. Taylor's case in a most favorab 1
light.
Unfortunately, in these zoning problems, as Mr.
Jobe I am sure will admit, somebody usually has to be hurt;
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3548
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and in this case, if the appeal is• denied, it will be Mr.
Taylor who will have to be hurt somewhat -- I think not
greatly. But I don't know just how many lots there will
be represented here tonight. I only know personally one
other party, or two other parties who are here, and I
haven't discussed the details with them. But there will
perhaps be -- oh, I don't know -- I represent 21 lots --
I guess there will be maybe 30 or 40 lots, home owners,
and so on, who will be very greatly benefited.
This problem of zoning is one of the very vexing
problems in every city in the United States, and I think
there is nothing more important in the cities of the Unite
States -- and in E1 Segundo with the others -- nothing mor
important than to preserve the residential character of
districts that are zoned for residential purposes. Becaus
when you get a business injected into a residential sectio
you have got a blight on the section which, to an extent
and to a great extent, definitely does blight it for resi-
dential purposes. And there is a tendency now -- there is
a weakening throughout our whole country to preserve the
residential character of property where property is zoned
for residential purposes.
Now in this case, of course, Mr. Taylor was in
there, as Mr. Jobe has stated, before the ordinance, as I
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER. LOS ANGELES 13 - MICHIGAN 3848
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there and they are there. I don't know just exactly how
many were built before and how many after, but I know the
are some very nice homes there now. But I didn't inspect
the property until the night I came over to meet with the
Planning Commission. And we would very much regret seeing
any further business development or any further business
improvement on that property, because the more that is
granted there, the more that is built up, the more perma-
nent it becomes in its nature.
Now, Mr. Taylor no doub t will be able t o f ind
another location that would suit his purpose, but of course
he has a legal right to remain there. There isn't any
question about it. But you also have the legal right to
deny him any further improvement on that property; and I
think that that would be the wise and the proper thing to
do, certainly under the circumstances of this case.
I think that the property owners in the neighbor-
hood there would be willing to pay Mr. Taylor a good bonus
for purchasing the property and to protect the whole neigh-
borhood, I have already suggested it but I haven't had a.
reply to it from Mr. Taylor. But I am very deeply inter-
ested in the preservation of the residential section of
that little district. They are building up a lovely.resi-
dential section and, as I say, any added business improve-
ment there will definitely tend to blight it.
There will be tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands
DAVID ETTLESON, OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 13 • MICHIGAN 3548
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►.y
1 of dollarst worth of homes and home property right in they
2 and just this one little business, which is pulling down
3 definitely the value of the property, the desirability of
4 people to live there, just by these three little lots and
5 this one little business.
Mr. Taylor, I think, has been a good neighbor.
Nobody has objected to me as to Mr, Taylor not being a good
s neighbor, But he can be the best neighbor in the world
' and have the greatest and best intentions, but in carrying
on a business there, he is blighting the residential sec-
tion, making it less desirable definitely as a residential
section.
As to the people around there, I don't exactly
know just how they will testify with reference to noises
and things of that character, but it is a business and it
is visible to the eyes of everyone, and anyone going in
there, of course, seeing this business section, in a great
many instances would immediately turn away and say, "Well,
I don ft want to live in a place where it is partly business
or where this business intrusion has entered."
As I said, unfortunately in these zoning prob-
lems somebody does really have to suffer, and there is a
problem of those who have the least interest. If you can
work it out so not the many have to suffer but the one,
then there is greater justice in that, and that is exactly
the situation here.
DAVID ETTLESON. OFFICIAL REPORTER, LOS ANGELES 73 - MICHIGAN 3548 5
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